A Beautiful Lifetime Event by shallot

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

A Beautiful Lifetime Event by astolat. Nearly 30,000 words of John, Rodney, and their kid. Eventually, they have sex.

The thing I appreciate about this story is that it does for me what the show has not done, which is put McShep in a situation that is fraught and only experienced directly by the two of them, so they are forced to uniquely rely on each other and, in the fullness (very, very full) become lovers because they mean more to each other than anyone else in the world. Also, since they are de facto married, most ladies won't want to sleep with them.

To my mind, John and Rodney on the show don't exhibit anything like the particular relationship that would lead to them becoming lovers. Half the time, I'm not entirely convinced they're friends. I'm sure they like each other, but is it any more than someone cool at the office?

In this story, because John and Rodney live together and have to relate to each other over the daughter they love to pieces, the story brings the heightened emotional life that allows them to eventually get with the getting on.

The thing I can't figure out though is whether or not I think it takes too long to get to that sexual place. Like, on the one hand, people don't switch sexual orientation on a whim that much. And the John and Rodney in this story are pretty clearly straight. Like, even after they have sex with each other, still basically straight, just monogamous with a person who happens to be male. On the other hand, hello, slash story presented in slash fandom, that hand has been dealt before.

No actual conclusion here, just thought I'd throw that out and see what people thought.

Comments

Feel free to delete or screen this

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

Just out of curiosity, do you have shalott's permission to review this fic? I know we don't need permission, but for my own sake I'd rather know if we have it or not. Thanks!

Re: Feel free to delete or screen this

[shetiger.livejournal.com]

For your peace of mind, here's what she said today (http://www.livejournal.com/users/astolat/95078.html).

thanks

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

Cool, that's good to know :)

Re: Feel free to delete or screen this

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

It's not a problem for you to ask, as long as you're asking because you'd like to review the story, too, and knowing would make you more comfortable.

Re: Feel free to delete or screen this

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's why I asked. Of course, I'm not sure I have time to review anyway!

Re: Feel free to delete or screen this

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

No, I didn't ask her and I hadn't read what she wrote about giving blanket permission.

[amalthia]

I was also kind of amazed at how long it took them to realize they could be having sex, but I wouldn't want that to change because honestly I was on the edge of my seat reading most of the story wondering when the hell are these two guys going to figure out they're hot for each other. :) And when it happened I felt like jumping up and down with excitment because it happened at the right moment. (for me anyway it did)

I also loved all the intimate moments they had together before the sex was introduced. Like lying in bed together playing connect the dots, the backrubs, and just hanging out watching movies with their time off.

Overall, by the time they finally had sex I could really believe two straight guys had fallen for each other in all possible ways.

Hmm not much more to say about this.

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

This is one of my absolutely fave fics, ever. Seriously, I'm in love with this fic.

But yeah, I think the way that they're thrown in to that relationship is unique, and far beyond any standard 'omg, we're having a baby!' type thing. I think the fact that they struggle to find out that they are, essentially, 'married' is completely realistic.

I mean, they are straight guys, after all, who haven't attended any wedding cerimonies. So, it's a bit of a realisation to have.


And the way it takes so long for them to realise exactly what they mean to each other, exactly how it is they love each other (or rather, that they love each other in yet another way) screams of them. Sure, it'd take a while. And sure, it makes it far better than the standard 'omg, I aint straight anymore! EEEEEK!' type plot.

Mostly though? It's just so typical of John and Rodney. They're both very smart people, and I love them both to death, but they're not the best when it comes to personal matters. And it just seems so typical of them to take so long to realise that not only are they married, but they are also in love ith each other.

Also, the way those two things are mixed around? Brilliant!


Oh, and I'd agree with amothea that the trill of 'when do they realise?' was a great thing to have.


Oh, and the kid? Screams Marry Sue, but I Really Don't Care. I mean, she can do this, can do that, can do absolutely everything (though, she isn't to great at interacting with others. ie cousins and Disney World). But, it completely works, and just seems natural. She's the daughter of Rodney-the-genius and John-the-closet-geek-rejected-mensa-bloke-with-strong-ATA-gene. Of course she's gonna be damned special, damned clever and damned talented. It completely slots in with everything else.




Oh, and John/John's parents? Great. That he didn't realise they actually loved him, genuinely did love him. The realisation when he found out they did. It was.... it was sad, and I can't ever imagine being in that position. And, also, another great element.





In all, I love this fic. It's bloody Fantastic, as the Doctor would say.

Can you tell how much I love it? *g*

[terrio]

Oh, and the kid? Screams Marry Sue, but I Really Don't Care. I mean, she can do this, can do that, can do absolutely everything (though, she isn't to great at interacting with others. ie cousins and Disney World). But, it completely works, and just seems natural. She's the daughter of Rodney-the-genius and John-the-closet-geek-rejected-mensa-bloke-with-strong-ATA-gene. Of course she's gonna be damned special, damned clever and damned talented. It completely slots in with everything else.

Also, she was conceived using Ancient technology, and I suspect the device took the best-of-the-best-of-the-best of both John's and Rodney's DNA. So it's not too surprising that their kids are extraordinary.

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Ooooo, that is a good point. Yeah, that'd explain it rather well.

[bluster.livejournal.com]

I'm normally not a fan of kid-fic. If it hadn't been astolat combined with being heavily recommended I might have given it a pass. I think part of why it worked for me is the child wasn't the focus of the story; the relationship between John and Rodney was the focus. There was a real feeling of things slowly evolving that felt organic and natural. In some stories the two characters are suddenly having sex and I end up wondering where that came from. This story might have gone a little too far the other way, but it was refreshing to see a natural progression from colleagues to friends to lovers.

It seemed very un-guy-like that they would spend so much time sleeping in the same bed and never once consider having some kind of mutually satisfying sexual encounter. But I've happily suspended that sense of disbelief for much more implausible situations and it felt necessary to let the physical go for as long as possible. Plus I love stories that really dig deep into the relationship and this story gave me that in spades.

[visionshadows.livejournal.com]

It seemed very un-guy-like that they would spend so much time sleeping in the same bed and never once consider having some kind of mutually satisfying sexual encounter.

See, that didn't even ping for me at all. I have a number of male friends who do that. Two good friends in college were constant cuddlers just because it was comforting and the two of them were completely straight.

[bluster.livejournal.com]

You're right that it is definitely possible, although I tend to think of that as the exception rather than the rule.

[visionshadows.livejournal.com]

I agree actually. Most men won't do that. I've been lucky having guy friends that will happily cuddle with each other and share beds. :)

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

There was a lot about this story that I liked, including the depiction of John's parents and his strained relationship with them, but the thing that took me out of the story as I read was the lack of sex. There was also a tendency to tell us what happened - I can understand the necessity for that because of the lengthy period of time covered, but after a while I felt like the story was very superficial because of that style. And once John and Rodney decided they were a family, and couldn't see women, and then started sleeping in the same bed? I started to think "come on, you'd be doing *something* together." Mutual handjobs. Sleepy good morning frottage before the brain engaged. Something.

I found Resonant's AU sex scene to be a far more realistic scenario about how John and Rodney would start doing the dirty.

One thing that did delight me was the mention of press coverage about the SGC - I remember giggling over the way Teal'c and Sam Carter and the rest of SG-1 reacted.

[tafkarfanfic.livejournal.com]

This story bothered me deeply. The part where John gets a girlfriend, and Rodney basically guilts him into dumping her, bothered me on a number of levels. It seemed to say that one can't be a responsible parent AND have a relationship with someone other than the other parent. After that part, I couldn't finish the story; I was too upset for words.

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it wasn't so much that he had a girlfriend, it was that he went to her after a mission and not his daughter. Which resulted in his daughter being scared to death that something had happened to him, and no one could contact him, which meant said daughter couldn't even hear his voice to reasure herself that he was fine.

Given the type of work John does, how dangerous it is and the like, that's fairly reasonable. And Rodney getting pissed off about John scaring his kid also seems reasonable.

That's what it was about, not the having a girlfriend thing.

[tafkarfanfic.livejournal.com]

It seemed forced to me - it seemed like the author was SPECIFICALLY forcing a situation where John would have to choose between his new relationship and his old "family". It also seemed ridiculous that John and Rodney couldn't have an adult conversation about it. That was the point beyond which I could not read, because the story had lost me.

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

That's a good point, I supose. But, they needed a major conflict at some point. Something to show them that they were actually married and what they meant to each other at that time.

And, true, they probably should have had a more mature conversation. But Rodney was rather upset over his kid being scared like that, John was probably upset that he'd scared his kid and pissed off Rodney. And both of them are strong willed people, and can be stubborn. So it's not unbelievable that it'd take them a bit to sort it all out. But, they do, and it doesn't take that long.

[amalthia]

Strangely the part that I re-read the most in this story is that fight and just reading Rodney's reaction brought tears to my eyes. BTW...i've seen a lot of "adults" fight over the dumbest things so I wan't at all shocked or surprised by their argument and how it turned out.

I think it was an issue that had to be addressed at one point or another. And I think it worked out. A lot of parents stay together because of the kids. It's not that far-fetched. It doesn't hurt that John and Rodney respect and like each other as people. I've seen people stay together with far less than that.

I really loved that line when John realizes he can't take Hypatia away without realizing what it was doing to Rodney...or something like that. I really felt the emotions reading the story.

don't get me wrong, if the two guys hated each other, argued all the time, or whatever I'd be all for them splitting up and sharing the kid because no kid needs to see that kind of relationship.

Basically, I don't think the author specificaly forced the situation. I imagine that if this was real life the issue really would have come up eventually.

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

it seemed like the author was SPECIFICALLY forcing a situation where John would have to choose between his new relationship and his old "family".

I think she was, I think she was wanting to make that happen to forward the plot and the relationship, yeah. She wanted that "hey, actually, we're married" realization to happen, so she created the dramatic revealing moment. But I can see how it might seem uncharacteristic of Rodney to react that way (though, as I said, I have mom-sympathy so I could go with it.) And I thought she was having them play it out more like a jealous, insecure reaction in a more romantic relationship (which I know not everyone would feel, but I think a lot of people would and do) so that we see what's going on, and what's coming, we clue in to what's actually developing between them before the guys do. That's how it struck me, but, then, I love the relationship angst like a big ho, which you know about me. *g*

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

I thought the issue was that Rodney was insecure and felt he'd be displaced if John developed a serious relationship with a woman, that he would become a non-live-in parent, which he didn't want to be. He didn't want to move out, and I don't think either of them considered a three- or four-way living situation doable. They both felt that, if they weren't willing to change the current situation, didn't want to split their home into two, they shouldn't develop relationships outside of the arrangement that could only go so far, that could never be more than recreational.

[tafkarfanfic.livejournal.com]

And that's exactly what bothered me! How many parents are there, out there in the world, who aren't married to the parent of their child, where both parents are still involved with the child - plus the NEW SigOs of the parents also become involved in the child's upbringing? A lot; heck, I'm one of the few people I know of my age and younger who has only two parents, both original. (Well, one now, but death kind of gets in the way of some things.)

Two reasonably mature adults would have been able to come to some solution, and to me it would have been much more interesting if they HAD come to a solution. I was baffled by the fact that John's new girlfriend didn't even seem to interact with the kid at all - that in itself seemed way out of character, because he seemed to be deliberately avoiding having the two interact. Then the resolution of that plot thread - John abruptly dumps the girl - disturbed me, because there was no effort in finding a solution that would work for all concerned. (Why couldn't they just move into the quarters next door?) And the fact that John now CAN'T have a relationship - well, it leaves him with only Rodney as an option, and that felt like prison sex to me, like he was pretty much forced into the relationship. And the fact that John didn't seem to have any resentment about the whole situation just made me shake my head in disbelief. The whole thing smacked of a situation in which they should have seen Kate Heightmeyer in order to negotiate a reasonable answer for all concerned.

Also, Rodney insisting that John can't have another relationship because they have a *baby* - it made me think of all the teen mothers I knew growing up (and I knew a lot - I was the only female in my social group sophomore year of high school who didn't get pregnant and quit school) who got pregnant in order to keep their boyfriends tied to them. And that also really bothered me.

All in all, it felt like a very young view of the way relationships should work. Meh.

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

I dunno. I sympathized with Rodney, some. The idea of becoming the non-custodial parent in a split--the baby would stay primarily with John because of the affinity--wouldn't appeal to me at all. I wouldn't go into that amicably and reasonably, I wouldn't be an adult about it. If my husband wanted me to move out and be a non-live-in parent of my baby daughter so he could comfortably have a relationship with someone else (and this isn't taking into account my relationship with him, this is about my relationship with my kids) I'd tell him to go to hell and/or over my dead body. Nobody separates me from my children, to even as nearby as next door. I was thinking Rodney was feeling similarly strongly about the idea.

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

This was one of the very few stories I've read that have made "I'm not gay, I just want you" work for me. It's actually a button of mine, and one that usually throws me out of a story. In this one, the writer takes the time to set up how that might work, how two straight guys who started out as friends might fall like this, and I bought into it. It did take a while to get there; I knew that was where we were headed, and I really wanted to see it happen, so maybe my impatience added to it feeling longer than it needed to be. Maybe it wasn't, because I did appreciate the care taken with the set-up, which made it work for me, so, not sure. I wasn't bored, I was anticipating. *g* And I loved the "eureka" moment John had in the store; it made me smile. I also thought the uncomfortable Christian friend was done well; I know that guy, and he didn't feel like a caricature.

What really struck me about the story was how she made not only "I'm not gay" work for me, but that it's a kidfic, too. One or the other working for me would impress me; both together makes me suspect voodoo. *g* It's not my favorite story of hers, but that anyone could write a story with both of those elements in it that I would enjoy was kind of remarkable.

[chaps1870.livejournal.com]

I didn't really see Rodney being upset that John was in a relationship but more that he was the one that would be cast out if John did find someone else to live with. The child was clearly more attached to John and there was no question who she would live with. That is what I saw Rodney being upset about. He was going to lose his daughter.

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

thepouncer said above: And once John and Rodney decided they were a family, and couldn't see women, and then started sleeping in the same bed? I started to think "come on, you'd be doing *something* together."

My thoughts exactly. I couldn't quite get over the fact that they took romantic walks down the beach holding hands, slept in the same bed, talked about not getting enough quality time together, and still taking them, what, six years to figure it out?

Although, the moment of revelation was almost perfect, and very well done. So I don't mind looking past all that other stuff.

The one thing I would loved to have seen in this fic, and which wasn't tackled at all, was the reactions from their colleagues on Atlantis. It would have been known that they had a child and lived together -- you'd think at some point someone would make a drunken innuendo that would clue them in to 1) what everyone else assumed they were up to, 2) what they were missing out on. At the very least, you'd expect a snide remark or two from Kavanagh.

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I think I'd have expected someone to have said something, too, rumors to start, even jokes about "John and Rodney sitting in a tree..." *g* From the science section, maybe, not the military, since speculating openly about their CO wouldn't be good. And Rodney's team probably tip-toes around him, some, but you'd think Zelenka or Kavanagh, yeah, maybe. But that would get them thinking and might hurry up that whole realization thing, or maybe instead cause a backlash-type reaction, in a "Heck, no, we're manly men, show us the babes" way that might actually slow down the action further. Hmmm. I don't think I'd really thought about that aspect before.

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'd really thought about that aspect before.

It was something I couldn't stop thinking about right the way through. I know the story was about them and their relationship. Obviously. But the way people interract with their environment shapes them, their reactions, their thoughts and so on. The lack of interraction with others (their good friends and colleagues), and the lack of any comment by anyone on their very unusual situation, felt pretty weird to me. I kept waiting for it, but it never came.

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

I think I was drawn deeply enough into the fairly narrow focus of the story that I didn't think much about the reactions of others. That makes me think about my expectations--in many slash stories set in any uni where being out would be a bad thing and the relationship has to be kept secret, attention from outsiders can signal trouble. Lots of stories don't deal with that, with the repercussions and reactions and political aspects of being gay (though some do, those that are primarily romances often don't and I read a lot of romances), so maybe that's what I've become used to, now, why I wasn't looking for it. Hmmm. Because, now that you've brought it up, I do see that there would have been something, some kind of reaction. Seeing how the rest of Atlantis was reacting to what was going on would have been interesting, yeah. Especially since the big clue-in followed someone's reaction--someone back on earth, after all that time spent together on Atlantis. I think it would have added something to the story to have seen that included, but I didn't enjoy the story any less for it not being there, and I don't think I would on re-read after thinking about it, either. And, really, the length of time to the reveal wouldn't have been sustainable if that had been included, unless the reaction happened very early, way before the friendship and sense of family deepened to the point where an "ah-ha" moment would have resulted--early enough that a "what, are you kidding?" reaction would have happened and it had been laughed off and forgotten. Something like that. More hmmmm.

[chaps1870.livejournal.com]

I had a thought on this and I wonder if because John and Rodney really didn't consider themselves in any kind of relationship that those around them didn't either. They didn't see themselves as gay and still showed interest in women whether they acted on it or not. In their minds they were just friends.

To those that know them and are around them, they appeared as heterosexual males in a 'bizarre' situation. One they were making the best of. Naturally their friendship would deepen as a result and any closeness they shared could be accounted for by the time they spent together. Yes, they lived together, but other than that they really didn't show any outward signs of there being any relationship. Only after they left Atlantis for Earth did they really pursue it and the story didn't go beyond that point so it didn't address the issue of what Atlantis personnel thought about it.

In my mind the story was about John and Rodney. While the reactions of others might have been interesting it really wasn't the focus of the story.

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

I had a thought on this and I wonder if because John and Rodney really didn't consider themselves in any kind of relationship that those around them didn't either.

Well, yes, that too. I think I must have taken it for granted that everyone knew that this was an arrangement based solely on raising the child, that others wouldn't assume a romantic relationship, at first, or even wonder, much, any more than the guys did. They might joke, though, tease, or be snide (Kavanagh.) But we could see hints of their growing closeness over time, and that might cause people to start to wonder--if we could, maybe they could. Or maybe they'd be so used to the idea by then that it wouldn't ever occur to them to wonder. Elizabeth's or Radek's or Carson's reactions would be more relevant, plot-wise, than reactions from characters we/they don't know well, and might add another flavor, but I didn't need to see it to enjoy the story.

[cedara]

No actual conclusion here, just thought I'd throw that out and see what people thought.

Honestly?

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

What's your question?

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

She's asking what others think about this, I believe: The thing I can't figure out though is whether or not I think it takes too long to get to that sexual place. But you're welcome to comment on other aspects of the story, too.

[cedara]

Thanks for the clarification. :)

[cedara]

Thought about the story that is. (Yes, I saw your admin post.)

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

Yes, I honestly just wanted to start a discussion about a story that I like but whose actions I feel, in some ways, ambivalent about.

It seems to have worked, and I'm happy. I've just been too busy to participate in the discussion since I started it.

[slash-spam.livejournal.com]

While I agree with the point that this story made "I'm not gay, I just want you." work, I cannot agree with neth_dugan's statement concerning the character of Hypathia:

Oh, and the kid? Screams Mary Sue, but I Really Don't Care. I mean, she can do this, can do that, can do absolutely everything (though, she isn't to great at interacting with others. ie cousins and Disney World). But, it completely works, and just seems natural. She's the daughter of Rodney-the-genius and John-the-closet-geek-rejected-mensa-bloke-with-strong-ATA-gene. Of course she's gonna be damned special, damned clever and damned talented. It completely slots in with everything else.

I finished the story feeling like I had missed a lot of scenes that would have made her an actual person.

I think we have all developed a healthy fear of Mary Sue kid stories and try to avoid them as much as MPREG fiction because only very rarely are the results something worth reading (if you're not into badfic or humor, that is).

Kid stories usually either mention the kid only in passing, or concentrate on it to an extend that makes us scramble for the insulin injector.

This story felt like the author has done her utmost to avoid any of the obvious, clichéd traps rife in MPREG and kid stories, and in doing so, gone into the other direction - too far, too fast. "A Beautiful Lifetime Event" is the ultimate anti-kid fic.

Yes, it has a child as one of the main characters, but that child seems strangely devoid of a character, of personal traits of her own, of opinions, or interactions with her parents beyond the most basic ones. She has no hair color, no eye color, no personal preferences. In the whole 29,581 words, the girl remains as nebulous as the mist in "Home" (apart from sometimes being a mini-Rodney or a mini-John).

She never thinks or acts beyond the scenes in which she clearly has a plot point to support, e.g. being the catalyst to John's realization that his family is more important than his love interest, or addressing the problem of John's lack of closeness to his parents (or, at first, Rodney's towards Hypathia until he solved it with technology).

Which would bring about an interesting tangent on its own, but that's not my point here.

I loved the scene between John and Rodney after the first had come to his senses and confronted Rodney about the ever-widening chasm between them after Katie. I loved a whole lot of scenes, plus the basic idea.

All in all, I thought the story had tremendous potential -- which it never utilized.

So no, I don't like "A Beautiful Lifetime Event" very much. It left me with an overpowering feeling of dissatisfaction.

This didn't bother me at all

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

And it took me a moment to figure out why your objections didn't bother me, although they would almost certainly have irritated me in professional fiction. First of all, this was a story whose premise was very ship claustrophobic. It's got an extraordinarily tight POV, and the only other major character is Rodney. This was not, in any real sense, a story about Hypatia, it was the story that Hypatia catalyzed. So, I wasn't at all upset with the development. I never felt as if shallot had promised me a story about an adorable precocious child, so when she was used as a secondary character, I didn't feel cheated.

Secondly, her characterization was handled as if she were a canonical character. We were told what we needed to know about her and her reactions to make the story we were reading work, and the rest was left unsaid, as if there were greater canon information about her available. That sort of sketchy characterization, where we are focused mostly on how a character acts in particular kinds of situations instead of in the general case, is a very fanfiction way of character presentation. I'm surprised to find that it worked for me even in the case of this original character, but it very much did.

[mythdefied.livejournal.com]

I really don't think the story is anti-kid. Like witchqueen, I really didn't think that the story was supposed to be focused on the child; it was about the John/Rodney relationship with their daughter on the periphery.

I think this story really tried to strike a good balance. For people who go all ga-ga over a kid in a story, there she was. For people who don't like kids, she was only around when she had to be to advance the plot. That's the theory, at least. Problem, though, as I see it, is that it didn't work. There wasn't enough of the kid for those who like them and for those that don't, her being there at all was too much.

It seems to me that this is a story that tried very hard to find a good balance on a subject that doesn't seem to have much middle ground. So, instead of people either loving it or hating it, you get the greater majority of people having "so-so" feelings about it.