[identity profile] millefiori.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] the_comfy_chair
Take Clothes Off As Directed by [livejournal.com profile] helenish is NC-17, BDSM themed, and an unauthorized homage set in the alternate universe created by [livejournal.com profile] xanthelj in General & Dr. Sheppard and Coming Home.

I read Helen's story both as a sly, clever reflection of male/female relations in Western society, and a look at the potential pitfalls of a society with an institutionalized BDSM lifestyle. And it's an interesting contrast to Xanthe's stories and style.

First off, I have to say I feel kind of cheeky posting about this, because I've only read parts of General and Dr. Sheppard, and I haven't yet decided whether or not to read Coming Home. I have some strong feelings about BDSM, and (of course) that colors how I read stories with that subject matter. I think BDSM in the bedroom is a kink, and I take a live and let live attitude toward kink. BDSM (and Domestic Discipline) as a lifestyle is something else, and it's something which for personal reasons makes me uncomfortable.

Having said all that, I think I read enough of General & Dr. Sheppard to get something of a feel for the writing, and I think it's an interesting contrast. Xanthe's writing feels lush and emotional, sweeping the reader along like a fictional Tchaikovsky. Helen's writing is more spare, quirky and at times almost uncomfortable, more like, say, Erik Satie. And I think these different styles suit the different stories very well. I can see these two styles/stories existing in the same universe, the lush, operatic story told of people who are happy and suited to their lives in this society, and the quirky, sadder story of people who don't quite fit and aren't quite as happy.

I found Helen's story to be very sad, the only hopeful part being that John had finally found in Rodney a partner who loved him and would treat him the way he wants/deserves to be treated. I'm not sure if it was Helen's intent, but I read this as John not really being a sub per se (nor Rodney being much of a top), but both of them forced into the roles by the rigid hierarchy of their society, and going along the best they could. I read it as John being the sort of person who wants to play BDSM games in the bedroom, not live it as a lifestyle, and the only reason he wasn't crushed by this society is because he's a stubborn, contrary bastard.

I was almost nauseated by the way Elizabeth so obviously and earnestly felt she was doing the best, right thing for John with her inappropriate 'discipline', when in actuality she was more of a hindrance, just one more thing to be ignored/overcome in John's attempts to be himself and to do his job. Because being routinely beaten, undermined and humiliated is just the downside of being a sub who's trying to do his chosen job. (And, of course, he wouldn't have these problems if he hadn't got above himself and stayed in his proper place.) It felt very realistic, and therefore very unsettling, to see just how easy it was to strip John of his dignity and humanity, and turn him into a second-class citizen, essentially a slave. And perhaps it's all the more unsettling because there are still people in the world who are slaves, and who are routinely treated in degrading, disrespectful ways, and they too have no choice but to suck it up and endure.

Although it's a bit of a slap in the face to overlay this dynamic on our society and see the sub=women angle, I think (I hope) things are not quite that bad for women anymore. At least not in first world Western societies. It's also good to remind myself that fantasy universes aside, most of the people living rigid BDSM lifestyles are doing so because they want to, not because they have no choice. Nevertheless, I think this story is going to stay with me for a long time.

Re: no plato...but

Date: 2006-11-18 11:40 pm (UTC)
ext_841: (Default)
From: [identity profile] cathexys.livejournal.com
I agree that the "Everything" really makes it look like they (we:-) get a happy ending. But your invocation of hippy love sage or pages of romantically perfect love scenes kind of establishes a spectrum that's already predicated on the fact that we *are* reading a romance, that John and Rodney *are* together. [Or, said differently, I don't think my desire to actually *see* the love in the text requires purply prose as a result. i think we have enough writers in fandom who heavily uderwrite just like Helen and yet bring across the true love and all...]

I guess I'm still not convinced that the story read outside of a slash context, outside of our expectations, is convincing as a love story. And then the next question, of course, is whether that's even relevant! Because we *are* reading it in contect, and, like you, I totally melted at the everything, b/c it seemed the happy ending in spite of...the fitting together almost against their own awareness?

Re: no plato...but

Date: 2006-11-18 11:48 pm (UTC)
ext_150: (Default)
From: [identity profile] kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com
I guess I'm still not convinced that the story read outside of a slash context, outside of our expectations, is convincing as a love story.

I think that regardless of who is reading it or their expectations in regards to the type of story, some people will see it as working and some won't. It has more to do with people's own ideas of love, their own prejudices, etc. than with the text of the story.

I mean, I can't answer whether they were in love or not, but at the end of the story, it felt to me like they were getting it to work, which is as good an ending for me as anything.

Re: no plato...but

Date: 2006-11-19 01:23 am (UTC)
copracat: dreamwidth vera (Default)
From: [personal profile] copracat
I like to see emotionally inept characters like John and Rodney written that way in fan fiction. In comparision I read an adorable story recently, well written, fun, emotionally satisfying, but John was just a bit too good at understanding what was going on between him and Rodney and a bit too good at explaining it to Rodney. That didn't hurt the story for me, but I notice it and it feels a little less true. Take Clothes goes a little way the other side of characterisation, but I like the work I have to do, every external misfire and fumble between John and Rodney has a (or I read has a) companion internal desire for connection. If John didn't want Rodney he would shut him out as he shuts out everyone else. If Rodney didn't want John he would just ignore him and forget his name. For me all their interactions count positive because they don't have to have them. They are both capable of staying away from each other if they didn't care.

Re: no plato...but

Date: 2006-11-19 01:24 am (UTC)
copracat: Dana and Soolin from Blake's 7 with text 'Some Girls' (rebel girls)
From: [personal profile] copracat
I like talking to you SO MUCH, by the way.

Date: 2006-11-19 01:30 am (UTC)
ext_841: (Default)
From: [identity profile] cathexys.livejournal.com
*g* thank you! same here!

I love the discussions this story has generated and the way it invites meta on so many levels! (and if I said any more I'd probably be in defiance of the community rules)

But yes, I do think that Helen consciously defies traditional slash bdsm tropes only to--on some level--still rely on the larger "shipping" trope that makes us accept the two together and their meant-for-each-otherness. In fact, I wonder if the underwriting we're so fond of in slashdom *can* function in the same way in pro literature.

[Yes, there's always Hemingway... But I knowI wasn't the only one who loved Naomi's stories but wished there'd nbeen *more emotion...something I never feel in fannidsh stories that underwrite...]

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