I don't think it gives the wrong message about submissives at all, because I think people get this isn't actual real-life BDSM. I think most people here understand that BDSM in real life is a CHOICE. Consent is of paramount importance--even hardcore 24/7 BDSM lifestylers have to have some kind of negotiated consent, or else it's just abuse, rape, assault, etc. Flogging someone without their consent is--obviously--assault, in this universe.
In helenish's world, there is no consent given, and it's just systematic abuse from society serving as an allegory for systematic abuse towards women, who also never gave their consent.
This is not the BDSM in the real world, it's a wholly different system. Regardless of whether you interpret it as a critique of BDSM in the real world or not, it is important to note that in the story John doesn't enjoy the sexual harassment, he doesn't enjoy the restrictions placed on his career, and this isn't consensual, it isn't a choice made of his own free will. As such, I think real-life consensual BDSM and this universe's BDSM aren't remotely the same thing even though they have the same name, because there's a big difference between flogging someone who wants it and flogging someone who doesn't--one is BDSM and the other is assault.
And yes, some people aren't understanding that this isn't how BDSM works in the real world, but whether that's the fault of the author or the fault of the reader is a whole different question. But I still think helenish makes it very clear that it's not entirely consensual, and as such it's not that being a submissive is bad, but that systematic and nonconsensual oppression is bad, and I do think most people here get this.
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branchandroot
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Date: 2006-11-17 11:36 pm (UTC)In
This is not the BDSM in the real world, it's a wholly different system. Regardless of whether you interpret it as a critique of BDSM in the real world or not, it is important to note that in the story John doesn't enjoy the sexual harassment, he doesn't enjoy the restrictions placed on his career, and this isn't consensual, it isn't a choice made of his own free will. As such, I think real-life consensual BDSM and this universe's BDSM aren't remotely the same thing even though they have the same name, because there's a big difference between flogging someone who wants it and flogging someone who doesn't--one is BDSM and the other is assault.
And yes, some people aren't understanding that this isn't how BDSM works in the real world, but whether that's the fault of the author or the fault of the reader is a whole different question. But I still think