Hindsight, by Rageprufrock

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

I think this community is a terrific idea, but I haven't seen anything come out of it so far so I thought I'd give it a go. Please bear in mind that I haven't written this kind of analysis in many years, and I was never much good at it then. So, on that confident note...

Link: Hindsight, by Rageprufrock
Summary: discussion of the characterisations in the above story

The story is an AU, in which John never joined the Air Force, becoming instead an FBI agent. Rodney's history up to the point where the story begins seems unchanged. Then one day in Colorado, Rodney discovers a bomb in his car, and John is subsequently called to the scene. That's how they meet, and the story goes from there.

The thing about AU's that has always attracted my interest is the characterisations. They really need to be spot-on if the characters are to be removed from the familiarity of their usual surroundings. On the first read, my opinion was that Pru had wholeheartedly succeeded in this. On the second read, I tried to be a bit more critical.

John's character was quite different to the John we see in canon in several ways. He seemed more open, less self-contained, and while he does work long hours and live alone, you get the sense that it's less of a choice on his part -- not something he seeks out, but something that just is, because of the demands his job puts on him. Contrast this with the canon John, who liked the solitude of Antarctica, and had to think long and hard before giving that up.

Perhaps because of this unusual openness to his character, or perhaps because the story is from his POV and we thus get a peak into his head, he also seems to possess a vulnerability that we just don't see, or haven't yet seen, from canon John. This is most obvious in the scene with Francesca (a kidnapped girl he's been searching for but finds too late) and his subsequent reaction to her death, but also in his relationship with Rodney. Despite telling himself that he isn't gay, that he isn't really interested in Rodney and is just using him, he shows a remarkable passiveness in allowing Rodney to muscle him around, take care of him, and in the end almost falls into the relationship without meaning to. This highlights his loneliness, his need for human contact and affection, and leads me to see him as a younger, less hardened version of canon John (I even began to picture him as Joe Flanigan's part in 'Family Portrait').

In fact, this makes sense in the context of this universe. John dearly wanted to join the Air Force and become a pilot, but was disqualified at birth by a medical condition. Despite the obvious satisfaction he takes in his job, there's always the sense of melancholy that he couldn't follow his dreams:

He smoothes a hand over his face and gets distracted when he hears a hum outside the window, and when he turns, he sees a Blackhawk helicopter crawling across the sky, and he cannot, cannot look away.

He grew up on military bases but has had no military training. He deals with rapes and kidnappings and sometimes-gruesome murders, but he's never been to war. Obviously some innate compulsion to save lives remains intact, but he's gone through his career without the desperate trauma of full-scale battle. He does have to deal with some horrific things, but at the end of the day he can return to his nice house in quiet suburbia and work through it all at his own pace. There's no indication that he's ever lost people he's close to in his line of work.

Rodney, however, has led his life exactly the way we've seen it in canon, right up until that fateful morning with the bomb. Presumably he's not long returned from Siberia, and is now working in Cheyenne Mountain on the preliminaries for the Atlantis expedition. So his character should be akin to the Rodney McKay we first met in SG-1, previous to his posting to Antarctica. It more or less is -- snarky, obnoxious, holier-than-thou. However, I found myself pausing to think more than a couple of times.

The first thing that struck me was the use of the word 'yell'. Rodney 'yells' a lot in this story. Admittedly, I haven't seen his SG-1 episodes in a while, but whilst he was smug and arrogant and annoying, I don't remember him being particularly belligerent or neurotic. He was quite self-contained, expressing his panic in a very reasonable way, embracing the sense of inevitable doom-and-gloom with surprisingly little fuss. (My memory, of course, could be faulty -- please do correct me if I'm wrong about this). It was only later, on Atlantis where it was his and his team's lives on the line that he really began to show the neuroticism, raise his voice, gesticulate wildly. Arguably, this is the first time that he ever really understood the responsibility he held -- what it would mean for someone to die because he couldn't find the right solution. Contrast this with his dismissive attitude to Teal'c's situation in his very first appearance in the 'gateverse, and you can really see the character growth that he's undergone.

However, he hasn't undergone it yet. But you wouldn't know it from this story. This is very much a post-Atlantis Rodney in a pre-Atlantis setting. Bit of an anachronism, but I actually don't mind it too much. It works well enough in the early scenes, setting up a good dynamic between Rodney and John, and beyond that there's enough subtlety and skill in the writing that I can believe their relationship is having a significant impact on his behaviour.

That said, the particular characterisations for both Rodney and John fit very well together, and whilst it's never explained explicitly, you can really see what it is about each of them that leads them to need the other so much. Despite the nitpicks and a couple of inconsistencies in some of the details, it's that that makes this story such a good read, and one that holds up well to re-reading.

Comments

Re: part 1

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

Rodney admits after his return that if John had asked him not to go to Antarctica, he wouldn't have known what to do. To go through it once, only to do it again, with the same risk that John would ask him to stay... I can understand why there wasn't a second goodbye.

Elizabeth sent Simon a videotape. Rodney could have done that -- but right now, we don't know why he didn't. We have no insight into his motivations or why (or why not) he makes the choices he does. Each choice he makes (the choice to see John, the choice to not see John, the choice to send videotape or not send one) all of these imply something about his character and how he views the relationship, and we don't get to see any of it. It's a lost oppertunity for me, and I am sad about it.

And actually, this story isn't a light-hearted story of romance and discovery it's pretty much a classical 'stranger' story, where the stranger comes into town, throws the lives of the characters out of whack, and leaves them again with their new insights. To grab stuff that easily comes to mind -- Something Wicked This Way Comes is like that, many of the old spagetti westerns follow this route, just, wow, tons of classic literature. It's where the story really ends for me because of that.

And then there's the epilogue, which is where I had my issues, but it does give a happy ending and many people prefer that. I just would have liked the full insight into Rodney's story -- the remix *g* -- that would have gone along with the John's story we saw. And it still could have had a happy ending with the two bookending each other. It's just that if she was going to play with the gene and John not going to Atlantis, I wanted to see that as well.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

I read the entirety of this story this weekend, driving home from a weekend with friends. I was slightly hungover, so I don't know that all my critical faculties were engaged. I was so charmed by this version of John, and all the attendant health reasons that he hadn't joined the military, that I was able to overlook the McKay characterization issues mentioned above. For me, this John was living an empty life, and Rodney challenged him enough to engage him again, which was the basis for his turn to the gay side. I laughed out loud at a couple of points, because there were some hilarious lines sprinkled throughout. On a more practical note, I felt that McKay's military security clearance wouldn't have meant diddly to the FBI - interagency access is notoriously difficult to manage.

Re: Part II

[sinden.livejournal.com]

Took me a while to get my thoughts together and write this while working at the same time, so sorry if this comes in late.

See, I saw this in a totally different light.

Like any AU it will always have things that make you go 'wtf and where did that polar bear come from?' if you look at it in the context of the show, but if you look at in the context of the AU, it's a whole other story [no pun intended]. I think that rageprufrock did an amazing job of encapsulating her AU and making everything work.

Maybe it's because I have a preference for layered storytelling that allows the reader to get what they want without being told everything and that I like a more, in my mind, canonically-based McKay -- I agree with isiscolo on this, McKay can be truly nasty when he puts his mind and mouth to it as well as all the other redeeming parts of his personality -- but the other thing that has to be remembered is that this is about Sheppard's POV.

He's not going to like McKay from the get go, but he's still oddly charmed and fascinated by him, by this man who can go through life insulting people and getting away with in a way that Sheppard never could.

We also aren't going to know what is going on in McKay's head because of the POV so it's his words and his actions that are the tell. And with McKay, the real truth is always in his actions, they say more than his words because -- let's face it -- McKay is seriously full of hot air and has a rather solid propensity for overstating the truth, especially in terms of its effect on him.

For me, rageprufrock gave him a shape that I could very easily identify, so I find your assertion of a one-dimensional characterisation rather boggling because it's not something I see at all. I truly loved Rodney in this and didn't see him as mockable at all, because he was quintessentially Rodney to me.

Re: part 2

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

The marines that come in with Summer don't get lights, but neither does John though the stairs do light up for him. Doors open for the marines, and lights turn on for the guys going into the jumper bay, though John isn't with them. Summer and his team are the ones who discover that they are underwater, and the lights are on for them, 3 levels down. And Carson is the one who finds and turns on the big planetary display left by the ancients.

So yeah, I'm thinking John, not so vital to turning things on as fannon might have us suppose.

Re: part 2

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

Or maybe it's just that he's a bit wiser.

Either way, he changed, and it would have been nice to see that. And see, I agree with you on the main story -- the one that ends with Rodney leaving -- being John's story. That is totally about him and how this stanger enters his life and changes him, and I loved that. It's just that the epilogue was really Rodney's story, and we didn't get to see that.

And hey! Earlier up in the thread now I posted some of the things I noticed in going back through rising. Take a look for yourself and let me know what you think. I find it fascinating.

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

See, I found McKay kinda cute. Yeah, it was abrasive in some ways, but he was funny about it. And funny and bright count for a lot in my book, so I totally understood this John's attraction to this McKay.

I head a couple of new terms today - OTC and prefered character. My prefered character in SGA is probably John, because when John's happy, I'm happy. *g* I tend to trust more of what he says and thinks than other characters do, so if he says something is a particular way, I kind of beleive him. So when he says he thinks McKay is charming (though not in so many words), I believe that as well. It really is interesting.

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

I'm very glad you posted about Hindsight; it's a terrific first-discussion story.

Cool. I'm glad you're glad :)

The Sheppard of Hindsight is incredibly passive, which is rather odd given his profession, and that turned me off.

As I said to rivier above, I think his passivity comes from a genuine need for contact with another person outside of his work. His case with the kidnappings is emotionally draining, and after long hours in a paedophile's head, he needs to reconnect with the world. His character is similar enough to canon John's that I can't see him entering into a relationship he didn't truly want on some level. At first he just wanted the company. Then he wanted to feel like there was someone who'd take care of him. And then he began to appreciate that, began to experience genuine affection for Rodney, and allowed Rodney to steer him in that direction. The fact that he insisted on taking the relationship at his own pace speaks to the fact he was in control, at least as much as he wanted to be.

But by the second episode in which he appeared, he had already started to take on three dimensions, including some vulnerability and a sense of his own limitations where science was concerned. This is why I don't quite buy Hindsight's strident, obnoxious, truly annoying McKay as being 'pre-Atlantis'. He's at the far edge of who McKay is -- he's a big ol' bundle of irritating.

Yes, okay, I agree with a lot of this. All of it, in fact. I just found the 'irritating' less irritating, obviously ;)

I'm not able to see any defined connection between the two characters that explains why they even like each other. Why would someone like Sheppard, as portrayed in this story, be attracted to someone like this McKay?

I saw a lot of subtlety in this version of McKay that a lot of others obviously didn't. I saw depth to his character -- uncertainty, warmth, affection, selflessness... No, it wasn't as blatant as in the show, but I still saw it and that was enough for me to understand why he might have caught John's interest. He's an unusal, complex man, and John's life is pretty empty at this point -- purely from the POV of an investigator, getting to understand him a little better, I can see that providing amusement for him. Amusement which eventually turns into genuine affection.

Re: part I

[mmmchelle.livejournal.com]

Interesting, because I only read the story once, but I felt that one of the things she succeeded in doing was keeping Rodney's charm. I also felt the obnoxiousness and the neurosis were slightly overemphasized, but certainly not as badly as I have seen in other fic. However, I also felt that I understood why John was attracted to him. It was little things when they first meet, and later on their first date. John seemed to find some of Rodney's harder to take traits amusing right from the beginning, and he recognized Rodney's loneliness, because he felt it too. Plus, he was charmed in spite of himself.

While not precisely how I see the characters, the characterization wasn't something I didn't find believable, mostly because I bought the relationship.

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

For me, this John was living an empty life, and Rodney challenged him enough to engage him again

Yes, that's how I see it exactly.

On a more practical note, I felt that McKay's military security clearance wouldn't have meant diddly to the FBI - interagency access is notoriously difficult to manage.

Lol! I did wonder about this...

Re: part I

[mmmchelle.livejournal.com]

I think that the Hindsight John, at this point, is very much in need of human contact.

I agree. I bought their relationship. I didn't feel Rodney commandeered John's life. They barely see each other for long stretches of time, and I can imagine Rodney calling him frequently, because he does obsess.

There were parts of the story that I wish had been better, but it was all technical stuff, rather than character stuff. I'll put that in another comment.

Re: part I

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

I think I have to agree with the_moonmoth regarding Rodney's characterisation. Yeah, he's a little more more in this story than in canon. But while I can understand the Rodney of "Hindsight" coming across on first, second, and third glance as belligerent and abrasive, I think there's an underlying compassionate side to him. It's clear he cares a lot about John as a person. In the beginning he does bulldoze John into a relationship, but later he doesn't call John up a dozen times a day to simply be oblivious and demanding, but to be the person who gets John out of his own head space. He makes sure John eats and works fewer hours and gets enough sleep. There's a deliberate choice there to be a comfort to John, in his own unique Rodney McKay way.

I agree with you that Rodney on the show is more self-contained than we see in the fic, but like you say, perhaps he's self-contained by necessity. The way Rodney meets John here is very different from their canon meeting. Here, their meeting is all about Rodney, his car, the bomb. Rodney quickly comes to view John as "his" too. On the show, their meeting is about John, science, and the mission. Their relationship is an ongoing professional one that deepens into friendship, they live in close quarters with 200 other people, they're never off the clock. In the fic, their professional connection is over with quickly, and Rodney is free to pursue his interest. Maybe that's enough to fork their relationship off on a different path?

But then I'm such a fan of AUs that I'll forgive what others might consider OOCness. *g*

Also, what is a bunny-boiler? I've never heard that term before!

Re: part I

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

I felt that one of the things she succeeded in doing was keeping Rodney's charm... I also felt that I understood why John was attracted to him... John seemed to find some of Rodney's harder to take traits amusing right from the beginning, and he recognized Rodney's loneliness, because he felt it too.

Yes, exactly, this is how I saw it too. The all-important dynamic was there, and that's one of the most important things for me as a reader.

[mmmchelle.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad you picked this story, too. Since I mentioned that the relationship worked for me. Here's a snippet that shows why:

"I don't think you really understand the severity of this," Rodney says suddenly, his voice damning. He scowls at John, who is settling the folder between his hands, looking politely interested in Rodney's most recent crisis. "I mean--I almost died this morning. Died. Before nine--before two cups of coffee, even," Rodney emphasizes, growing increasingly horrified at his brush with mortality. "And you, you keep smiling your little I Grew Up South Of The Mason-Dixon Line smile! Can we have a little professionalism? Can we have a little focus?" Rodney frowned down at his Styrofoam cup, and held it up again. "Also, can I have a little more coffee?"

John's a little amazed, torn between insult and hilarity, and decides Rodney's too weird to go one way or the other, and settles for bemusement.

He says, "Sure, I'll go refill that for you and remind everybody who won the War of Northern Aggression while I'm out there--happy, Dr. McKay?"

This is back in John's office after they met, and in John's reactions I saw interest. Not sexual interest, but he's already starting to like Rodney. Even as he characterizes Rodney as an asshole, John isn't treating him like one, although other characters are. He's curious, and he's already starting to have fun around Rodney. At least that's how it felt to me.

I have to get to bed, but in the morning I'll mention the technical stuff I wanted to talk about.

Re: part 2

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

Okay. In the context of the show, I think that Atlantis began to wake up the minute anyone with a gene walked through the gate, and proximity didn't necessarily count for anything. Once the city awoke, it could sense life signs elsewhere and open the doors appropriately, or turn on the lights, even though those lifesigns didn't have the gene.

In the context of reconciling this with the story, it could be argued that Atlantis only began to wake up with the unusual strength of Sheppard's gene, and then everything else came online accordingly as I said above. Without him there, nothing would have been activated to begin with.

What you said about air and heat above is a good point. Air shouldn't have been a problem - the city is big and I'm sure the doors could have been pried open to allow circulation. Heat, however, would have been a problem. On Earth, the bottom of the ocean is a mere 3C, and after 10,000 years, all the insulation in the city walls and shield wouldn't protect them from that. It is a temperature they could survive in, but it would be pretty uncomfortable. Bed-sharing for all, I'd say!

Re: part I

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

Also, what is a bunny-boiler? I've never heard that term before!

Glenn Close's character in Fatal Attraction? *g*

[engenda.livejournal.com]

I thoroughly enjoyed this AU, and I'm not one for AU's I generally find them less than satisfying. I adored Rodney in this fic, because it fit with the Rodney that I see on the screen. He's abrasive, loud, whining, opinionated, sarcastic, bombastic, caring, smart, supportive, funny, emotive and touching. I have to agree with sinden here, in that Rodney's all about the actions. It's what he does that's telling not what he says. And in this, he does a lot. He pursues John, a nervous, bumbling pursuit, but dogged. He sends John gifts with funny notes. He rings him to make sure he's okay. He takes him home and takes care of him. He challenges John mentally. There's something about Rodney that does attract John, maybe not physically in the first place, but it's there or John wouldn't have gone out with him at all. This is all before John actually admits to Rodney that he likes him, before Rodney leaves for Antarctica.

John, is fairly passive in this fic, but not overly so. It's from his POV so by definition, it's going to be reactionary. He's responding to Rodney and his environment. He's still solitary, which I think was incredibly well done - he has this place where he's nested, he has the car but he doesn't have the people. He participates in that relationship, it's unexpected to him, but not grudging - if it were so, he wouldn't be in it.

I love that he's still in service, even the FBI - John's a fixer, he wants to do right and help people and this what he does instead of flying. John's feelings about flying, about wanting to join the AF are just heartbreaking. Which, I think, feeds into his loneliness and his sense of isolation - which as in the show feels voluntary to me. He's superficially charming and friendly, but he doesn't really connect on a deeper level.

I loved that Rodney wanted to take John with him. I loved that he tried and couldn't. I loved how by knowing that John wouldn't stop him he realised he was in love with him. The fact that Rodney considered that John may ask him not to go and to consider what his reaction would be shows how much he cares.

Poor Sarah, I felt sorry for her. Particularly when faced with a pissed off Rodney. Rodney going off, had me laughing and felt so "Rodney". When he's in an uncomfortable position he goes on the offensive, which is what he did there.

My main problem with the story was that John actually got to go to Atlantis in the end, gene or no. He suffers from IDDM. Even with the Daedelus being completed (which I assume is the case from the timeline), having a type I diabetic on off world missions is risky. But that can be explained away, reasonably easily.

Re: part 1

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

Elizabeth sent Simon a videotape. Rodney could have done that

True.

it's pretty much a classical 'stranger' story, where the stranger comes into town, throws the lives of the characters out of whack, and leaves them again with their new insights.

I'll admit, I'm not very familiar with this genre. Maybe you're right, but I still don't think your alterna-ending would've worked. The 'insight' that Rodney brought, the whole being gay/bisexual thing, wasn't a big part of the story. The focus was very much on their romantic relationship and how that devloped. To rip them apart just when they're beginning to realise exactly what they mean to each other... that not only defies reader expectation in the not-good way, it's just plain mean *g*

but it does give a happy ending and many people prefer that.

I'll be honest, I'm one of those people. However, I have read some stunning tragedy in this fandom, and that also makes me happy. It's just... I don't feel the right tone in the rest of the story for an unhappy ending to add to the overall coherence of it.

Re: part 2

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll buy yout fanwank on the atlantis of this story being different from canon (it is an AU, right? *G*) Which actually helps me a lot, because as I said, I liked John's story and the relationship, but I had a hard time with that last act.

And yes! Bed-sharing. One big pile of not!down and as much thermal things as they can manage.

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

Even as he characterizes Rodney as an asshole, John isn't treating him like one

Yes, well said. The difference between what they say to each other and how they actually treat each other is telling, and the actions are the important thing.

in the morning I'll mention the technical stuff I wanted to talk about.

I look forward to it.

Re: part 2

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

I'm sure I would have totally bought into it if I had been shown what had happened, rather than being told.

Usually I'd agree with you, and definitely if we were watching the show, but I think in this case the story would've lost its focus if we'd detoured to Atlantis and watched everything that happened there. The story would've been much longer, the POV no longer John's.

There must've been some basic life-support going on even without John's gene because otherwise the AU Elizabeth would've suffocated before she could rotate the ZPMs! *g* The 16 naquadah generators I don't buy as much, but ah well :)

Re: part 2

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

I'll buy yout fanwank on the atlantis of this story being different from canon... Which actually helps me a lot

*wanks away* any time ;)

[mmmchelle.livejournal.com]

The first difficulty I had is with the death of John's mother. The author does a lovely job of showing it to us, of showing us how it affected John, but there is no payoff. The main story is a love story and the mother's death is never conncected to the love story. Had she shown us John talking to Rodney about his mother's death, I would have felt that it had a payoff, as it was I kept wondering when it was going to come up in the context of the relationship between John and Rodney and it never did.

The second difficulty I had is that the last third or so of the story is almost entirely exposition. John tells Rodney he isn't gay. They fight. They kiss. Then we're told that they kiss a lot more after that and eventually they have sex. Rodney asks John if he's sure, and that's it. After all of the build up I felt cheated. I wanted to know what made John decide he was ready for sex with Rodney. I wanted to know how he was feeling the first time they had sex. How did he feel seeing Rodney naked? How did he feel touching Rodney? I wanted to see Rodney's reaction when John said he wanted him. I wanted to know if Rodney was anxious or confident. I wanted to know what they said to one another and how they sounded saying it.

It wasn't just the sex that was given short shrift, either. There is an exposition description of them sharing post-coital confidences, but we didn't get to see it. I wanted to see it, to hear their words and see their expressions and reactions, to feel how hard or easy it was for them to share those things.

Because I didn't see those things, I wasn't entirely sure why John would choose Rodney over the woman he had moved in with. I hadn't fully seen John develop a deeper relationship with Rodney than he'd had with the various women who had moved in and out of his life.

Lastly, the pacing felt off. The last part of the story moved much faster than the first part, and less exposition would have helped with that.

Still, I enjoyed the story.

Re: part 2

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

Okay, here's where I get really, really obsessive, so please bear with me! The first people through the gate are Sumner, Bates, Weir, Stackhouse, and some random Marine, with a khaki green knapsack. Sumner and the Marine are the only ones wearing a cover. Next through is Ford, also wearing a cover and carrying a black knapsack, then Sheppard. When Sheppard steps through, the lights start coming on. We see Ford (cover, black knapsack) stepping to the side and the lights coming on. But Ford doesn't have the gene. Stackhouse has the gene by "38 Minutes" but we don't know if it's natural or artificial. But even if we assume it's natural and he had the gene in "Rising", it's only until John steps into the city that we see the lights coming on for Ford or anyone else.

Then, John and Rodney start up the steps. We get a shot of John stepping, and the stairs lighting up. A beat later, Rodney comes into view. Weir and Sumner stare at them and Weir asks, "Who's doing that?" and Sumner asks about alien presence. Now, it's not made explicit, but I tend to take all these cues to mean that John's presence is what the city is reacting to. So yeah, it's true he isn't with every Marine recon unit sent out into the city, but his gene has already initialised the city and the others don't have to be gene carriers to make non-essential functions work.

Now, it could very well be that Carson's gene would've been strong enough to wake up the city too, as well as do smaller things like turn on the hologram. We never know because John is the first confirmed gene-carrier to go through and the city did light up. But I think my reading of John as being necessary to wake the city can be supported by canon, which is why I don't have a problem with fics that use this particular fanon. YMMV, yadda, yadda. *g* Heh. Told you I was obsessive!

Re: part 2

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

Yes, there are 2 stories here to me, one John's story (which is the one that was written), and one that was Rodney's (which we didn't get to see.) So technically, we are in agreement here; I just wanted to see the Rodney story too.

Re: part 2

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

Yes, but the marines are already starting to wake up the place before John gets there. The first thing we see isn't flashy, it's a door opening, then we see the lights turn on. So I buy into 'any gene through the gate and the city starts reviving', and then we go from there.

And yes, totally obsessive! Bwa-ha-ha. ::maniacle laughter::