I'll reply to both comments at once, if I can--at least I can still see them both while replying to this one. (Is this a DW thing? I never noticed being able to do this, before. I don't always pay the closest attention to what I'm doing, though.)
Anyway. I can't actually think of any fandom I've been actively involved it which didn't have SF/F elements.
Me neither--XF, TS, Buffy, SG-1, SGA, side trips into things like Vamp Chron and Voyager--I'm a genre fan all the way. And, like I said, I was raised on SF--a lot of old school stuff and hard SF, mostly, that my dad gave me to read. I'm much more into newer interpretations, now, and I'm glad that the genre has become so wide and encompasses so much--there's something for everyone.
what interests me are new and different ethical dilemmas, relationships with the Other, and emo porn and kink
Me, too, though I think that all those things are very writable in non-SF stories. What gives me a SF-related high are when those perspectives are coupled with SF tropes--aliens from other planets, for instance, rather than cultures we perceive as alien that come from our own planet. It's a bonding of (relatively) newer tropes and tools with the stories we've always told that makes it work as good SF, for me.
That's why Dearest pings my SF meter, though not as hard as the others--the slavery theme is influenced by the science. What if you saw a wrong like this being done and you could change it overnight, free your lover's mind and change an entire society so quickly, completely and so anonymously that there is no chance of resistance, so that change is guaranteed? That the change is so sudden, sweeping and catastrophic is important to the story being told, and that could only happen with the technology in use and the society that grew from it. That's what I mean by SF having science as an important part of its structure, the way the SF elements take the old story and make it new, add a twist that wouldn't be there without it.
I think your take on the story as light-hearted and referential is interesting--it didn't strike me that way, either as referential (though I do think of "Freedom", for instance, as a very fanon-referencing story, while I know others don't) or as a post-Trinity trope fic--not everywhere Rodney goes is China, even metaphorically. *g* I do enjoy Lav's lighter stories, but this one never resonated with me that way, and I certainly didn't lol. I think that, thanks to popular tropes, a lot of stories could be seen as being deliberately referential when the influences are actually more organic than that; author intent, however, is something we can't know without asking (and something we don't really discuss here, even when we have, so.) I did read the sequels and enjoyed them, but I think this story is at its most perfect where it originally stops. And I do love artistic minimalism; I loved the way this story gave us everything we needed to know, about the society and Rodney and John, in a few deft strokes. I love stories that do that, and I don't think of them as sketchy--I think it takes real talent to do that, and it's something I've worked hard at trying to develop. I think Kanata's story does that, too, and I commented to someone recently, elsewhere, about a story that impressed me that way, what was that--Uncovering the Ursine, by Perfica. So hot and so funny, and very minimally and deftly written. I crave that skill.
I have read Attack of the Giant Robots, I'd forgotten about that one--so hilarious, and makes me wonder how the hotness can be that farcical and still be that hot. *g* I love humor and heat, together, and that's a terrific example. And, yeah, the robot makes it a SF-themed story, too, though I SO wasn't focusing on the robot. ;)
If SF is not a commentary on the real world and an exploration of tendencies in the real world, then it's not genuine SF to me. I don't consider space operas or fantastic fiction with improbable or impossible "science" that might as well be magic to be real SF.
The genre has become so wide and come to encompass so much that it is going to mean something different to just about everyone, I think. I don't go to SF for real-world commentary, though I appreciate it when I see it. I don't think it's necessary to the definition, and I think that many people may see it where it wasn't intended or see it differently than the author intended--again, not knowable, but I feel comfortable in saying that I don't think everything TPTB thought they were saying with SGA was necessarily what we all saw. And I don't think that SF stories have anything particularly new to say--I think the tools they use to say it with are newer than the tools authors had available to them, before, but I think the stories, at their hearts, are much the same. Which means I do consider space opera SF, because of the tools used--Firefly was SF, even though the story it told was very old. I think the SG-verse is SF, too; I think it easily fits into the width and breadth the genre has attained. And I think the same things make good SF stories that have always made good stories. Kanata's story is a good story, and would have been in another setting or told with other tools, but that would have been a slightly different story--it's possible to tell that story in another way using older devices, but the devices do have their own impact on the story's developement. That she didn't, that these are the tools she used to tell a very human story, is what makes it SF, for me.
I don't remember if I've seen the vid, or not--I'll download it when I have more time. The thoughts about transformation and identity intrigue me, but, again, gotta stop here. Your list of themes, though, gives me more to do a mental search through in trying to recall other SF-themed stories I've enjoyed--thanks!
no subject
Anyway. I can't actually think of any fandom I've been actively involved it which didn't have SF/F elements.
Me neither--XF, TS, Buffy, SG-1, SGA, side trips into things like Vamp Chron and Voyager--I'm a genre fan all the way. And, like I said, I was raised on SF--a lot of old school stuff and hard SF, mostly, that my dad gave me to read. I'm much more into newer interpretations, now, and I'm glad that the genre has become so wide and encompasses so much--there's something for everyone.
what interests me are new and different ethical dilemmas, relationships with the Other, and emo porn and kink
Me, too, though I think that all those things are very writable in non-SF stories. What gives me a SF-related high are when those perspectives are coupled with SF tropes--aliens from other planets, for instance, rather than cultures we perceive as alien that come from our own planet. It's a bonding of (relatively) newer tropes and tools with the stories we've always told that makes it work as good SF, for me.
That's why Dearest pings my SF meter, though not as hard as the others--the slavery theme is influenced by the science. What if you saw a wrong like this being done and you could change it overnight, free your lover's mind and change an entire society so quickly, completely and so anonymously that there is no chance of resistance, so that change is guaranteed? That the change is so sudden, sweeping and catastrophic is important to the story being told, and that could only happen with the technology in use and the society that grew from it. That's what I mean by SF having science as an important part of its structure, the way the SF elements take the old story and make it new, add a twist that wouldn't be there without it.
I think your take on the story as light-hearted and referential is interesting--it didn't strike me that way, either as referential (though I do think of "Freedom", for instance, as a very fanon-referencing story, while I know others don't) or as a post-Trinity trope fic--not everywhere Rodney goes is China, even metaphorically. *g* I do enjoy Lav's lighter stories, but this one never resonated with me that way, and I certainly didn't lol. I think that, thanks to popular tropes, a lot of stories could be seen as being deliberately referential when the influences are actually more organic than that; author intent, however, is something we can't know without asking (and something we don't really discuss here, even when we have, so.) I did read the sequels and enjoyed them, but I think this story is at its most perfect where it originally stops. And I do love artistic minimalism; I loved the way this story gave us everything we needed to know, about the society and Rodney and John, in a few deft strokes. I love stories that do that, and I don't think of them as sketchy--I think it takes real talent to do that, and it's something I've worked hard at trying to develop. I think Kanata's story does that, too, and I commented to someone recently, elsewhere, about a story that impressed me that way, what was that--Uncovering the Ursine, by Perfica. So hot and so funny, and very minimally and deftly written. I crave that skill.
I have read Attack of the Giant Robots, I'd forgotten about that one--so hilarious, and makes me wonder how the hotness can be that farcical and still be that hot. *g* I love humor and heat, together, and that's a terrific example. And, yeah, the robot makes it a SF-themed story, too, though I SO wasn't focusing on the robot. ;)
If SF is not a commentary on the real world and an exploration of tendencies in the real world, then it's not genuine SF to me. I don't consider space operas or fantastic fiction with improbable or impossible "science" that might as well be magic to be real SF.
The genre has become so wide and come to encompass so much that it is going to mean something different to just about everyone, I think. I don't go to SF for real-world commentary, though I appreciate it when I see it. I don't think it's necessary to the definition, and I think that many people may see it where it wasn't intended or see it differently than the author intended--again, not knowable, but I feel comfortable in saying that I don't think everything TPTB thought they were saying with SGA was necessarily what we all saw. And I don't think that SF stories have anything particularly new to say--I think the tools they use to say it with are newer than the tools authors had available to them, before, but I think the stories, at their hearts, are much the same. Which means I do consider space opera SF, because of the tools used--Firefly was SF, even though the story it told was very old. I think the SG-verse is SF, too; I think it easily fits into the width and breadth the genre has attained. And I think the same things make good SF stories that have always made good stories. Kanata's story is a good story, and would have been in another setting or told with other tools, but that would have been a slightly different story--it's possible to tell that story in another way using older devices, but the devices do have their own impact on the story's developement. That she didn't, that these are the tools she used to tell a very human story, is what makes it SF, for me.
I don't remember if I've seen the vid, or not--I'll download it when I have more time. The thoughts about transformation and identity intrigue me, but, again, gotta stop here. Your list of themes, though, gives me more to do a mental search through in trying to recall other SF-themed stories I've enjoyed--thanks!